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Post by flyinghighrunner on Apr 13, 2008 6:36:18 GMT -5
Ryan Hall 5th in 2:06:17. Very impressive. Also impressive, Hall was 30 seconds back at 40k and Lel added another 30 seconds in the last 2k to finish 2:05:17.
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Post by frojoe23 on Apr 14, 2008 6:57:04 GMT -5
This has to be considered the greatest marathon of all time. The field was just so deep and what a race! For Lel to pull it out again - he has to be the front runner for the Olympics. Too bad there is no Haile G - or else that would be a heck of a race from start to finish!
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Post by flyinghighrunner on Apr 14, 2008 18:15:07 GMT -5
And I don't think Geb would've let the pace relax around 30-35k, and thus a new world record would most likely have been set. But still, what a great race. Being only 1 minute behind the winner with that kind of company should give Hall a good chance, and good motivation, for Beijing
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Post by kevinspradlin on Apr 14, 2008 20:15:29 GMT -5
With a huge PR and a fanastic field helping to pull him along, Hall still "only" finished 5th. That puts him out of medal contention in Beijing - and that's with a larger field with even more competition, isn't it? GREAT RUN, not trying to take anything away...
A question - what's he doing so right? Is it merely talent, combined with hard work, dedication and coaching? Or is it a system that other American-born runners could copy and benefit varying degrees?
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Post by frojoe23 on Apr 15, 2008 6:55:25 GMT -5
I would say first and foremost with Hall success is his coaching. I think Mahon is a genius and then put him in that group that he's in with Meb, Deena, Kate O'Neil, Dan Browne, Josh Cox and then put that group at altitude to train and you have such a great combination.
I really think Hall is great at the marathon because he only focuses on the marathon - he races little and when he does it is more of a fitness test and he isn't concerned if it goes badly because he is training for some other goal.
He may look to be behind when it comes to getting a medal at Beijing now, but Mahon will have him ready. I really think that Hall can medal if not win it. We all know that it is supposed to be hot in Beijing and heat is the great equalizer and if you look at the track record of this group in hot marathons, it is amazing. Meb with the silver in Athens and Deena with the bronze and look at how Kate O'Neil ran in the 88 degree heat in Chicago - 2:35 for third place.
Anybody else have any thoughts on what Hall is doing right?
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Post by hyndmanstrider79 on Apr 15, 2008 7:40:11 GMT -5
You can watch what he's doing right on flotrack. There are a couple video's of his tempo runs and a bunch of interviews with his coach... Check it out!!
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Post by Justin on Apr 15, 2008 9:02:23 GMT -5
I think it's a little off-base to say he is out of medal contention. If you look historically the past Olympic Marathon winners since 1984 have had PR's going into the Olympics ranging from 2:07:29 to 2:11:46, so being a 2:06:17 guy in only 3 marathons is sitting pretty well in my opinion. This isn't even taking into consideration the unpredictable nature of the marathon distance, especially in tough conditions like they'll see in China this summer. The Olympic race will be very different than the London race.
I think when looking at what he has done right, I think his upbringing has to be talked about. He grew up at altitude and has been putting high mileage in since a young buck. In HS he was primarly a miler, but trained more in the mold of a longer distance guy, but had enough speed to be at the top of the country in the mile. Growing up putting high mileage in on soft surfaces at altitude, sounds like what East Africans have been doing to me for a long time.
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Post by kevinspradlin on Apr 15, 2008 10:00:01 GMT -5
Justin, you pinpoint one of my primary concerns of expecting Hall to be in contention for a medal - he hasn't bonked yet. Of all the other indicators, most every marathoner - regardless of talent - has has at least one bad showing at the 26.2-mile distance.
Listen, I'm not against the guy, I just thought it'd be fun to talk about and that it might inititate some discussion. Looks like it did.
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Post by frojoe23 on Apr 15, 2008 10:13:36 GMT -5
I think that Hall did bonk - it's just on a different level than all of us. He ran 4:49 pace for London, but the last 3 were at 5:10 pace or better, he says. To me that is a bonk and starting to crash. It's hard to believe it, but I truly feel 2:06:17 was not anywhere near a complete race for Hall.
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Post by Justin on Apr 15, 2008 10:39:20 GMT -5
It's a good discussion, I like this.
I think the fact that he hasn't won 2 of his 3 marathons shows he's had some "bonking", a guy that good isn't going to die completely, but he's not going to be able to respond to some awesome moves. I guess I just didn't agree with the statement that he was "out of medal contention". From what I've seen in Olympic marathons is that they are certainly unpredictable, and I for one wouldn't consider anybody with a PR of 2:10 or under to be out of contention, any of those guys could hit it and grab a medal. I would maybe even make it 2:11 considering the conditions.
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Post by wvrunner on Apr 15, 2008 13:21:52 GMT -5
You guys have touched upon some great things here. Great coaching, group training, altitude, not overracing, focus on long-term aerobic development. I like his chances in Bejing. It seems like a few people always come out of the woodwork for the Olympics and surprise everyone.
I like Hall's approach to his life and training. I saw some footage from a link on LetsRun(came from Godtube) of his marathon simulation run (12 moderate @5:45 pace and 10 at marathon pace). He looked so strong. Mahon has done a super job with that group. I bought a book a few years back called Run with the Best. It details Halls' high school training and what he did at the time was pretty amazing. He's a great one to use as a role model for up and coming young runners.
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Post by flyinghighrunner on Apr 15, 2008 20:39:10 GMT -5
Hopefully the thinktanks for the Olympians will have significant impact for this year's training as they did for Meb and Dena 4 years ago. From what I understood, they figured out what the temp/humidity, etc would be at the time they were running (at the start, middle, end) and figured out exactly what kind of pace they should be running, fluid intake, etc. Of course this year may involve taking a breathing filter at the beginning and replacing it every 3 miles or sooner!
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