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WMIL
Oct 10, 2006 18:51:28 GMT -5
Post by chris on Oct 10, 2006 18:51:28 GMT -5
It is at Beall's course but I think that Westmar is the host. What does everybody think? Will J.T pull it out on his home course? Will people show up? Who will win? This is exciting!
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WMIL
Oct 10, 2006 19:43:24 GMT -5
Post by QCS Admin on Oct 10, 2006 19:43:24 GMT -5
Looks like Northern has a soccer game at Southern at 7:30 ? is what will Ryan do run or play soccer Looks like Eric is still out along with Bennett JT might have a walk in the park now the girls race will be up for grabs with Lauryn out?? Amanda Twigg should win
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WMIL
Oct 10, 2006 20:09:02 GMT -5
Post by Justin on Oct 10, 2006 20:09:02 GMT -5
When are people going to realize they need to pick one sport a season and concentrate. Especially with all the recent runners jumping up to the college ranks and making impacts, why do talented runners still choose to limit themselves by playing soccer? When is the last soccer player from the area to significantly impact the college scene?
Sorry for the rant, but it is just stupid to watch over and over.
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WMIL
Oct 11, 2006 6:44:18 GMT -5
Post by frojoe23 on Oct 11, 2006 6:44:18 GMT -5
I totally agree with you Justin. All these years of soccer teams that are awesome, but then get destroyed by Washington County powers. When will these kids learn that they are better to stick with one sport that our area dominates? I think Bowser will be at the meet on Thursday. His father pretty much told me that if they lost to Beall this week, then their season was pretty much over. Well, Beall beat them easily last night, so I look for at least Bowser to be there on Thursday. If he is, it should be a great rematch as Bowser owes Carney one on that course.
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WMIL
Oct 11, 2006 8:33:36 GMT -5
Post by wvrunner on Oct 11, 2006 8:33:36 GMT -5
Justin and Jaron are right. It is always cross country that takes a back seat. The kids don't see the "big picture" that running could help pay for a college education. It's more of a problem at smaller schools who have the same number of sports as a larger school but with a smaller enrollment. As soccer has increased in popularity and cross country numbers dwindled, it has forced coaches to allow kids to do both. Unfortunately, when a scheduling conflict occurs, cross country always loses out. The disadvantage that running has is that kids start in soccer at a very young age and then it is difficult to get them to do something like CC that they may have more talent at. Howard County had an answer to this. They created a year-round junior striders program to get kids interested in running early and keep them in running. Is that something this area needs to explore? It may be if we want to keep the great tradition of distance running going in our area.
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WMIL
Oct 11, 2006 9:41:10 GMT -5
Post by Justin on Oct 11, 2006 9:41:10 GMT -5
You can put down a good argument that from the WMIL (Allegany & Garrett counties) on a statewide basis XC is the strongest sport. Just look at the data:
Since 1993 the WMIL has produced:
11 Boys Team XC State Champions (3 2A, 8 1A) 4 Girls Team XC State Champions (all 1A) 3 Boys Team Runner-ups 4 Girls Team Runner ups
This isn't even taking into effect the numerous individual State Titles both girls and boys.
I think a middle school XC program could help out, like they have in parts of WV. Really though results like this should be boosting participation, but I guess that most people in the area do not even know about these championships and successes. I personally am not too worried about participation numbers as much as I concern myself with the "multi-tasking". We always have had low numbers, but that never got in the way of winning state titles. When you take the individuals who are running and start splitting their focus between XC and soccer then the quality goes down a ton. I would take 8 individuals who are 100% dedicated to XC and the success of the team over 50 individuals who are worried about soccer practice and games while running part-time. When I was a freshmen there was a county rule that student-athletes could only participate in one sport each season, I think around 1994 or 5 they changed that rule. I say bring it back.
I may sound like a hard-a$$, but I don't even like other season sports. Running is a 365 day a year sport (you get a 1/4 of a day a year), in order to reach full potential it takes hard work and dedication 12 months a year. I guess this is probably why I will most likely never coach HS.
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WMIL
Oct 11, 2006 10:54:26 GMT -5
Post by frojoe23 on Oct 11, 2006 10:54:26 GMT -5
I agree that running is a full-time sport. While there are athletes who are standouts in basketball, baseball, and football, it has always seemed to me that the guys who end up on Olympic teams are the ones who starting specializing in that one sport at a young age. Now, I don't think that we should take young kids and have them only focus on soccer or running, but by the time they are in high school, I think they need to make a decision about what sport to focus on. While there are three sport athletes who do football, baseball, basketball - they are pretty much the same sport where there is little aerobic work and explosive power! I like Justin's idea of middle school programs such as WV does.
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WMIL
Oct 11, 2006 12:27:52 GMT -5
Post by Justin on Oct 11, 2006 12:27:52 GMT -5
I think there may be a correlation between the amount of area runners who go on to perform at the college level and specialization as opposed to other sports. The guys and girls who go on to the next level are the ones who run year round and do not play other sports, they'll do XC and track. The best football players usually play basketball and possibly even baseball. Their lack of specialization hurts their chances of competing with other people who specialized in one of those sports. They only concentrate 1/2 or 1/3 of the year on their best sport.
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WMIL
Oct 11, 2006 14:52:40 GMT -5
Post by dan on Oct 11, 2006 14:52:40 GMT -5
I did both soccer and cross for two years- both 9th and 10th grade. It always seemed to work well because I could go to cross-country for awhile and then go to soccer practice later that day. It was only ever a question of what was what on the weekends when there was a practice for soccer and a meet for cross-country. Luckily, at that point Beall had a JV coach that was very supportive of the dual sport idea. He said he did not mind me missing a Saturday practice if I was going to a meet, because he knew I was not "sitting at home playing Nintendo."
I also received some good advice from him at the end of the fall soccer season in tenth grade. We were talking about the difficulties to come in doing both sports since both varsity soccer and varsity XC practiced immediately after school.
He looked right at me and said, "There are few kids that will ever go anywhere for soccer. If you can pursue running, do it."
I've never forgotten that advice. But my love for soccer has never died. Some kids do not want to play a sport in college or even go to college, and if that's the case, make high school the best athletic years of your life. If you love soccer, play soccer. If you want to run, run.
I would not be able to say that I wasn't jealous when I saw Beall soccer win a state title during my senior year. It was the group of kids I played with for 10 years, and only during the last two had I not been with them.
But, then, look at what I was able to accomplish in running. The things I was fortunate enough to be able to do, and the amazing things the Beall team did during '03 and '04 are unlikely to be legitimately paralleled for a long time.
There is no concrete answer for this discussion. Luckily for me, a shattered ankle pretty much made the decision as to what I would choose. I am about 80% positive I would have stayed with running, because at that point I was beginning to realize what opportunities were available.
Most of the reasons I like running are for the fact that it is mundane. It is the sludge-and-dredge, day in and day out, same old routine that gets results. It is not the explosive drills or blasting PK's over and over that makes you better.
But when it comes to the selfish reasons, soccer still has my heart. My girlfriend likes soccer because she can identify with it better (she played 10 years, too). There were never 1000 people to watch a XC meet, even if it was at Beall, just the parents and the other team. We got recognition from people because we pretty much had to tell them, "hey, look at us, we won states two years in a row- see all those banners on the wall?" The soccer team's region finalist seemed almost as equal as the cross team's repeat state title.
I don't exactly know what I am trying to say with this. I think my perspective is a little different than yours (Jaron and Justin) only because I actually did both during HS with relative success. I eventually made the choice, and I am glad I chose running, otherwise I would not be here at Lehigh enjoying all these amazing opportunities I've been blessed with.
I think this is a subject that lacks perspective from both of our sides. I, too, was angry to hear about the Northern guys skipping the Area Meet to play a soccer game (I did both once) with a timeframe that could have accomodated both. But for the non-serious runner (which I do not think any of us are, or were at that point), it is very possible that the enjoyment could have been a lot greater for playing a soccer game than a XC meet in the rain.
Well---now that I look at this, I do not think I really got anywhere in all of that. Just wanted to throw in some ideas from someone who had been on both sides of the metaphorical line/ball/gun/(insert corny two-sport related object here).
Good topic, though.
DAN
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WMIL
Oct 11, 2006 15:25:36 GMT -5
Post by Justin on Oct 11, 2006 15:25:36 GMT -5
Good post Dan.
I would like to add that when I was entering High School I was a very good soccer player. I had the HS soccer coach at Allegany ask me to play a lot of times. I had BW soccer parents call my house asking me to go there so I could play both soccer and XC since the public schools has a rule against it at the time. I have no problems with people choosing to play soccer, or whatever sport they choose to play. I would just think that as a high school athlete they make a decision on which team/coach/sport they want to pursue. I feel it is unfair to the coaches and teammates of athletes which split themselves between sports on both teams. It's unfair to the other XC runners that attend every practice and it's unfair to the other soccer players who give the soccer team 100% of their time. I really feel that when someone commits to something, especially something which involves others like a team, each person owes their best to that commitment. In my opinion it's impossible to do so when splitting between 2 different commitments and each one suffers.
I really think the nature of running as a full year sport is the reason we excel. The soccer team usually consists of guys who will play other sports, or at least not play soccer 12 months a year. Thus when they run into a team from down state, where they do play 12 months a year, they usually get beat.
A totally seperate discussion which relates to this one is school consolidation. I truely feel for Western MD schools to remedy this problem we need to consolidate our resources. This would increase the talent pool across all sports and negate the "need" for multi-sport athletes. I remember back to talking with the Fort Hill guys just dreaming about if we were one team, it would have been a slaughter at states in any class.
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WMIL
Oct 11, 2006 20:04:19 GMT -5
Post by dan on Oct 11, 2006 20:04:19 GMT -5
I agree with you, 100%.
As I grew older and started to realize that other people had feelings besides myself, I started to realize it was a little bit selfish to be giving divided time to both sports and not being 100% into either sport.
I felt bad playing halfback for someone who had gone to every practice and I felt bad running on varsity over a senior who was only about 30 seconds slower than me.
Both coaches assured me that it was alright to do what I was doing, but at some point, fingers start to get stepped on, and the success in both sports starts to suffer.
Commitment is important. I am seeing that more and more as I get further into my college running career here at Lehigh. We run, like Justin says, year round. This is on a much higher level than in high school, where XC and a few weeks of outdoor invites were the primary emphasis. Now, we race from September to November, December to February, and March to May. We get 2-3 weeks off after school is out, and then we get right back into the summer base phase as June begins.
The other athletes here at Lehigh have only one season in which to compete. They have to do the mundane stuff, like lifting and plyometrics, during the offseason until it is time to compete.
While sometimes I think it may be nice to have free time for 2/3 of the year, I also cannot imagine being able to race frequently for more than 1/2 of the school year. There is such a different atmosphere in the college races than in high school- where every time you go out is a chance to PR, and there are no worries about whether you need to save energy and only run 10:20 in the 3200 because you need to score some points in the 800 soon after.
In summary- it may be possible to compete in both sports at the same time. I did it for two years with no real noticeable problems. However, after looking back at it, I realize I may have stepped on some fingers, may have lost some time to develop as both a runner and a soccer player, and may have not really contributed fully to either team.
Justin's points are valid and well-stated.
As for the school consolidation- that is something that I think everyone can dream about. There is such an outpouring of talent from this area in the past 10-15 years, if there was only some way to get everyone running together at their peak.
The obvious solution, other than consolidation, would be to get everyone together on a college team. It would be like the Western MD/ WV All-Stars in the top 5. All the talent out of this area in the past few years would have made an awesome team, especially given the proper coaching and the opportunity to develop on the college level. Granted, it would not be an American or Villanova type of program, but it would definitely turn some heads.
Maybe there is a chance that we can get some current HS kids to add to this other than old-timers (though I really am not old, still 18, and Justin is just past the quarter century mark, and Jaron is just bald). Our ideas are based on what it was like when we were in high school, a gap which spans almost 10 years.
Hooray, though, for finally getting a good discussion going. I like being able to draw from my "infinite wisdom" and having it be appreciated. Ha. Something like that.
DAN
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WMIL
Oct 11, 2006 22:07:33 GMT -5
Post by chris on Oct 11, 2006 22:07:33 GMT -5
I am awesome at posting new boards. Go me!
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WMIL
Oct 12, 2006 7:13:31 GMT -5
Post by frojoe23 on Oct 12, 2006 7:13:31 GMT -5
Dan, to give it to you from another perspective: When I was in high school, there were a few times during the season when we would have soccer players come and run a meet. I remember Eric Robison running a few times (your brother will remember him), and he was a decent runner. He had the ability to be top 5 in the area. To us guys who were on the team plugging away every day, we hated him. He had talent - but he didn't practice with us. Sure, he took our team up a peg, but he wasn't our "brother" and he bumped one of us out of the varsity lineup. When I was a senior, we had Jamie George give it a try. We had him run two meets. It seemed that we put a lot of our hopes on him running well. It didn't pan out. He was good enough to run varsity, but again he didn't sweat with us everyday so he truly wasn't one of us. The way a team meshed definitely goes a long way.
Along with this is the fact that the soccer players ran early meets, but as soon as soccer playoffs hit, they wouldn't run another meet. That really hurt us come region time. Even though at that point, Beall was usually out of the playoffs, as far as those kids were concerned, their season was over. If they couldn't do it in soccer, then there was no way they could do it in XC was their thought. So, yes, it really does bother those people whose fingers are the ones being stepped on, but we all swallowed our pride and realized that the addition of talent was great for the team, but those guys never really were a part of the team and if we would've gone on to better things, I don't know if we would've even celebrated with just added "talent".
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WMIL
Oct 13, 2006 13:06:40 GMT -5
Post by Justin on Oct 13, 2006 13:06:40 GMT -5
It looks like the meet went well. I don't know much about that course. How does that time hold up from races past? What's the course record?
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WMIL
Oct 13, 2006 13:26:07 GMT -5
Post by mertz on Oct 13, 2006 13:26:07 GMT -5
The meet was very good. Another great race with the guys. Bowser is looking real tough and is going to be hard to beat. It is nice to see beall and allegany guys team doing well. Beall and Allegany runners have improved every race. The team results were very close with beall winning by 5 points. These two teams have been fighting each other in every race to beat each other. It has made the meets really exciting.
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